The Bolton Build - 818C

[FFRWRX]

I've been watching this intently trying to determine what I want to do so that I can get a decent window solution for my targa top. Since I can't put tracks all the way up the side, I have to come up with something else. You have me leaning towards throwing away the curved glass and getting something that is flat since I'm making 3 of the 4 mating surfaces from scratch.

The issue to check with flat glass is how it goes down into the door. Since it can't "curve" along a track and it has to be contained within the door. I did wonder briefly if something could be bonded to the front of the glass to create a curve similar to the rear of the glass, and also be parallel with the rear. Then tracks in the door all the way down should be possible. That would mean modifications to the roof piece at the A-pillar and I didn't want to get into that. There really isn't a huge curve in the glass, so maybe flat glass would be a good solution. Either way, with the window all the way up there isn't much supporting it within the door. Maybe something bonded to the bottom of the door glass to attach a track to?

Rick

[lance corsi]

2002 S-10 pickup truck window channels are what I used. They have the proper curvature to match our windows. Takes about 10 min to remove and they were cheap.

[Kiwi Dave]

Here's a post about Mr Corsi's S-10 rails:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post447240

Cheers

Dave

[lance corsi]

But wait, there’s more! The following are also candidates for window channel donors;
2007 Mazda 5 van rear door glass
2009 Ford exploder, front doors
2003 Lincoln Navigator front & rear dooors
2007 Saturn outlook front & rear doors
Hth!

[FFRWRX]

I went back and tweaked the drivers side window frame and got it working very well now. I think the window will go all the way down as well; I'll know better when the door skin is on.

A quick little video showing it in action:



To run the wires into the door, I bought some guides for that purpose. Basically it is a plastic tube with some aluminum end fittings. It attaches to the door side and the tube slides in the other end attached to the pillar part of the car body. It worked well enough, but because of the geometry of these doors the tube would bend as the door opened and closed. Probably not an issue, but I didn't like that. I think with "normal" car doors the front of the door and the car pillar are parallel so the tube would slide more than bend.

I gave this a bit of thought and came up with a fairly simple solution. I 3D printed a ball swivel that attaches to the door so that swivels instead of the tube bending. The neat thing about 3D printing is that I printed it with a .010" gap between the ball and the housing so it printed as one piece. Then just break it loose after printing. It was printed as the one on the right and the left one shows it pivoted around:

IMG_2394.jpeg

You can see it in action here with the door open and closed. Note the how the ball has swivelled:

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I've been working on the door skins a bit too. The easiest way to cut them out for the window opening, with the full frame, was to cut out more than enough and then bond back in a piece to fill the gap. Since you can't put the door skin on with the window frame in place until you've cut the opening, and don't know how much to cut from the skin without the skin in place, I found this worked out fine. Some pictures of a large piece bonded in, marked for cutting, then cut, then filled.

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I held the piece in place with masking tape from the inside and used instant glue to hold it. Then flipped it over, took off the tape, and put some matt and epoxy over the seam. Flipped it back over, dug out a small groove where the seam is and put more epoxy. I tinted it red since I had some colouring stuff; didn't really need to though.

I'll fit the door skins back on and then see what I want to do about the area inside of the window. That will likely be a removable piece of the fibreglass door skin.

Rick

[PhilO]

Do you think door pin contacts would work as well instead of the wires? Or is there not a good place to put the contacts like below?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/k...hoCGOwQAvD_BwE

[FFRWRX]

I looked at those pin contact units a while ago and thought they were pretty cool. You would have to make up the brackets to hold it in place in a position so it would work properly; they have to break contact with the door open. I think it would have to be "inside" the hinge point so a gap opens when the door is open.

One reason I didn't go with that is in case I want to raise or lower the window when the door is open. That, and I've got enough "fussy" stuff going on with the doors without adding to the confusion.

Rick

[FFRWRX]

Or more accurately, moron doors!

The interior door pull. Yes, a minor part, but if you were running a company no matter how big or small would you feel OK shipping this out:

36C70068-24ED-4B23-8FAE-6004031175B9_1_105_c.jpeg

How do you actually produce a part with such huge burrs?

OK, now we go to mount it. It goes where the red line is on the inner door panel:

945C0294-EE98-45B7-BF46-6756691DC003_1_105_c.jpeg

According to the instructions I have, it just attaches to that plastic panel. So when you pull the door closed you try and pull the inner door panel off. Nice design. Since I wanted it a little more secure than that, I put the panel in place and marked where the attaching bolts go:

5932C2D1-F7B0-4BD0-A538-A6F7C87010F9_1_105_c.jpeg

One goes where the tape is, and nowhere close to any of the metal in the door. The other just hits one of the bars; so with tolerances it may attach to that bar (but certainly not with the hardware supplied) or may miss it.

So am I doing something wrong, or did they really design this to attach to a flimsy plastic panel? And since it is closer to the hinge line than the rear part of the door, I can imagine a fair bit of force being put on it. And don't get me started on that door panel not really fitting since the inset part of it is up solid against the door framing before it is fully in place. It really has to be pulled in hard at the bottom.

I'm going to add in some additional metal so the inner pull attaches to something solid.

Rick

[lance corsi]

Rick, I feel your pain. I gave my door panels away after seeing the many issues. I made some from sheet aluminum and they look *****in.

[lance corsi]

They look great!

[FFRWRX]

Yea, I just want to get the damn things finished and move on to other areas. But I'll look at them again and see what else I might want to do. I'll take a look at what you did Lance....edit: Can't find any pictures of what you did.

For those that aren't here yet, here is a bit more detail.

This is a frame member in the door:

5932C2D1-F7B0-4BD0-A538-A6F7C87010F9_1_105_c.jpeg

When you put the door panel in place, the part of the door panel circled in red will hit that frame part. This is before the part circled in blue is pulled in enough to allow the door to close. So you have to pull the lower part, which is only a couple inches away, in really hard and hope the screws (that go into plastic) hold.

945C0294-EE98-45B7-BF46-6756691DC003_1_105_c.jpeg

You would think that since you are designing both the door structure and the inner panel from scratch you would make them work nicely together. You would be wrong.

Oh, then there's this gap with the panel in place:

923D2211-FFEE-466B-AE12-DC16089232DD_1_105_c.jpeg

Can't move the panel back at all since it is hitting at the top and bottom ends. The fibreglass is up against the metal of the latch mount, so it can't be pulled in either. Just a really bad fit that will have to be filled somehow.

Rick

[aquillen]

It took me about 0.01mSec to decide an internal bracket had to be in there so it wasn't just pulling on the plastic. I rarely have felt like FFR should have done better - because well "kit car" and I know what they've been like before the FFR guys were even born...

But this door pull, from the ROUGH stamping itself to the (really?) mounting plan falls just a bit short of "minimum standards".

[J R Jones]

Having background in product development a basic tenet is you can fix the problem(s) once before production or a thousand(?) times thereafter.
This is opportunistic, if a dealer were in the middle he would negotiate a "fix" or stop selling the product. A guarantee or warranty would police negligence, commitment is not negotiable.
Skeptics like myself question Is this the exception or the rule? Well, actually I am keeping track.
jim

[TheHelixx]

Oh, then there's this gap with the panel in place:

923D2211-FFEE-466B-AE12-DC16089232DD_1_105_c.jpeg

Can't move the panel back at all since it is hitting at the top and bottom ends. The fibreglass is up against the metal of the latch mount, so it can't be pulled in either. Just a really bad fit that will have to be filled somehow.

Rick

Idk if you want to go this far, but I made 2 cuts in the door skins then pulled them closed with glass tape. It tightened up that gap and helped with possible rubbing into the jam. I just put a few layers of fiberglass on the inside to hold the new shape and then filled the outside till smooth.

5A55545D-3E15-43CD-B952-8100FED561D9.jpg

I also abandoned the plastic door panels and made new ones out of fiberglass sheet from Home Depot. I made an inner lip out of fiberglass and drilled for grommets.

EC0DB974-3117-4E47-96B8-288FC34CE11C.jpgBA5D540E-09CB-4F0F-A8EC-D385D1BD3C4E.jpg4156978A-A9A5-4CCA-AA14-A344834D4422.jpg

[J R Jones]

Idk if you want to go this far, but I made 2 cuts in the door skins then pulled them closed with glass tape. It tightened up that gap and helped with possible rubbing into the jam. I just put a few layers of fiberglass on the inside to hold the new shape and then filled the outside till smooth.

5A55545D-3E15-43CD-B952-8100FED561D9.jpg

I also abandoned the plastic door panels and made new ones out of fiberglass sheet from Home Depot. I made an inner lip out of fiberglass and drilled for grommets.

EC0DB974-3117-4E47-96B8-288FC34CE11C.jpgBA5D540E-09CB-4F0F-A8EC-D385D1BD3C4E.jpg4156978A-A9A5-4CCA-AA14-A344834D4422.jpg

Helix,
That is bloody magnificent, I expect even Art is impressed. I suspect however, in view of the heat gun, your Home Depot sheet is ABS plastic. You demonstrate remarkable skill heat forming it into a functional and attractive shape. Compound contours are not easy.
I have used Home Depot "Dairy Board", (polyester sheets for wash-down walls) as my backing board on vinyl trim panels for a street rod. The dairy board will not distort when wet like wood paneling.
jim

[FFRWRX]

Idk if you want to go this far, but I made 2 cuts in the door skins then pulled them closed with glass tape. It tightened up that gap and helped with possible rubbing into the jam. I just put a few layers of fiberglass on the inside to hold the new shape and then filled the outside till smooth.

5A55545D-3E15-43CD-B952-8100FED561D9.jpg

I’m not sure from your picture where this is. Part of the gap I’m showing is where the latch mounts on the door frame, so the fiberglass is up tight against the steel so can’t be pulled in.

[TheHelixx]

Helix,
That is bloody magnificent, I expect even Art is impressed. I suspect however, in view of the heat gun, your Home Depot sheet is ABS plastic. You demonstrate remarkable skill heat forming it into a functional and attractive shape. Compound contours are not easy.
I have used Home Depot "Dairy Board", (polyester sheets for wash-down walls) as my backing board on vinyl trim panels for a street rod. The dairy board will not distort when wet like wood paneling.
jim

Thanks, but it’s the same stuff your talking about. I used it as a canvas and then wrapped a layer of fiberglass over the top to give it a finished look, the speaker and dash blend are cut out of it and I used fleece over the bump and tucked in behind where I cut out so I had less to fill. It’s def not perfect, but I didn’t need to put screws all the way around it. Once I coated it in texture and painted it, it’s not too bad.

[TheHelixx]

I’m not sure from your picture where this is. Part of the gap I’m showing is where the latch mounts on the door frame, so the fiberglass is up tight against the steel so can’t be pulled in.

If you look at FFRs picture closely, you’ll see they both cut the outside edge at the top further back and also put the panel over the edge to get it closer in the middle. The cuts I added were to pull the inside edge of the skin up and in to follow the contour better. It’s mostly when you close the door.. when the door is perfectly square it wants to rub in r tree he bottom to back just naturally because of the swing. If you make bigger gaps then you don’t need it I guess.

D64365C7-1E70-4B3D-9870-7C442BC9FCA0.jpeg

[FFRWRX]

Here is one area where the gap is pretty large:

Screen Shot 2021-10-14 at 9.32.02 AM.png

Can't pull the fiberglass in since it is up against the steel door frame. And can't move the panel back any more. But I know what you mean about rubbing when the door is closing. I'm getting rubbing in the same area (where I can't pull the fibreglass in). With the door closed it is fine, even a bit large of a gap. And the door skin is thin enough in this area I can't really sand anything off it.

Going to make my own door panel to help with things like this large gap, the door pull having no metal under it, the strange way the inner panel goes from inside to outside at the rear corner, the inner panel actually being outside the car at the front......

Rick

[Ajzride]

Aloha818 had the best solution I've seen so far for the door striker/panel. Add a lip to the fiberglass:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post161744

[J R Jones]

Thanks, but it’s the same stuff your talking about. I used it as a canvas and then wrapped a layer of fiberglass over the top to give it a finished look, the speaker and dash blend are cut out of it and I used fleece over the bump and tucked in behind where I cut out so I had less to fill. It’s def not perfect, but I didn’t need to put screws all the way around it. Once I coated it in texture and painted it, it’s not too bad.

Helixx, Ahh the Frankenstein technique, know it well. I buy FRP sheets and tubes for similar efforts. Thin materials can be bent over wood fixtures, fastened and bonded, then fasteners removed.
I have epoxy sheet flares bent to fit and if they break loose I do not want to be in close proximity.
I have one quarter panel that is not symmetrical at the wheel opening and has to come-in. Another pie-cut bend-bond exercise.
jim

[FFRWRX]

Started making inner door panels and realized that I have to sort out the inner door release first. And an inner door pull. And how the lock works. I generally don't think ahead too much (or enough) and just jump right in.

So I cut an inner panel from some thin plywood as a starting point.

17872D0D-D965-4355-BC22-EE2D32A48B49_1_105_c.jpeg

How to do the top of it and attach it there? Well, this is how doors were done 100 years ago, so good enough for me:

2CE21332-5735-4949-9E7D-3428EEE91B55_1_105_c.jpeg

This piece is shaped and attached at the rear with a small bracket bonded to the door skin. The tinfoil is just covering the fibreglass piece while it was curing, to hold the angle bracket in place.

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At the front, I had made a new mirror mount that moves the mirror rearward a bit, and also allows me to close and seal the gap between the top of the door and the bottom of the A-pillar. This is a picture from when I was going to use the plastic inner door panel. I've milled a shallow slot in the aluminum piece that will have a sealing strip bonded to it.

F4D706AF-7B45-41A5-B7DC-FAD80CE7D60C.jpeg

Then the upper wood piece screws into the aluminum mirror mount from below:

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There is a small rabbet in that wood piece that the door panel will go into. It is rounded on the inside and outside edges. The idea is that the upper wood piece, covered in vinyl, will be bolted in place and the door panel will be the removable part, clipped into the upper wood piece and retained at the bottom. Some form of door pull will be bolted through the inner door panel into the steel framework. That's how it looks in my head right now.

Working on the various linkages now for the door release and lock.

Rick

[FFRWRX]

The instructions say to put a zip-tie to hold the lock mechanism in the unlock position. Then they supply a small bracket to go on the lock cylinder, presumably to activate the lock...hmmmm. No info on how to hook that up though.

Since I'm using the supplied Miata inner door release which has the lock lever on it, and I have the actuating rods, might as well hook up the lock mechanism.

These are the rods:

BA80D4DE-CE45-44F9-8200-F2E34052B0C2_1_105_c.jpeg

The long one is for the door release, and the other ones that go through the reversing bracket are for the lock. The easiest way to use this is to forget the reversing bracket (which would have to be mounted somewhere) and just join the 2 shorter rods into one long one for the lock.

The blue is the lock, shown in the unlock position. The red is the door release. The bracket from the lock cylinder is not here yet.

138563F0-3D58-4ABE-BBFB-514AE18C6CD0_1_105_c.jpeg

I made a short joiner piece from steel and silver brazed the 2 lock rods together. Could have just used a longer piece of rod, but didn't have any handy.

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Now for the tricky part. The tube piece joins the rods together for the lock. But there needs to be another rod going from that to the bracket on the lock cylinder. With everything in place I used instant glue to attach the rod in the correct place. Then, how to join it. I couldn't see how to hold it in place while silver brazing it and get it exactly right. So I used a method sort of like we used to use to make pushrods for R/C aircraft. May seem a bit crude, but I think it will do.

I wrapped the joint with some cloth, soaked it with CA glue, hit it with accelerator. Makes a rock-hard joint. Yea, looks weird.

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With the rods in place, you can see how they all hook up.

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Everything works nicely! Now I think I can continue with the door panel.

Rick

[J R Jones]

I am anticipating that the remote lock/unlock will eliminate the key-lock complexity.
I wonder is copper crimp sleeves for cable would work to join the rods? The crimp could be followed by solder or braze.
jim

[FFRWRX]

Been a while since I updated my build. The main reason is that I took time off to work on machining stuff in the basement. The main project there is making a 1/5 scale gas powered V8 engine:

Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 5.19.46 PM.jpg

This is a "Little Demon" that is all machined from blocks, rods, etc, no castings. A real challenge.

But back to my 818C build.

I spent a lot of time working on the door gaps, and you can see my issues here, so I won't repeat my rant:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...the-latch-side

Took the roof off the car again; I've had it on for the last time many times now!

I bonded on studs to be able to pull it down to meet the rear fenders at the rear corners. Also put some sound deadening stuff on it. Not sure how/what to cover that with. I'm thinking of a foam board panel with the headliner material glued onto it. Then that covered panel will be attached to the roof with glue, double sided tape, or some other means.

Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 5.24.46 PM.jpg

My partially built kit came with the hood hinge, but it was not installed, so needed glassing onto the hood. I cut some tapered wood spacers to match the contour of the hood and the hinge plates:

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That hood is very flexible! Have to be careful opening and closing it when the car is painted since it won't automatically line up with the fenders as it closes. Not a big deal though as it does keep it light and, hopefully, there won't be a need to open it often.

So now that the studs are bonded onto the roof, what to do on the body-side to be able to pull them down? I was going to use a simple flat piece of stock on an angle across the rear corner of the car, from the rear piece to the fender, with a hole in it for the threaded stud to pass through. But since I have the trunk kit installed it isn't that easy at the rear. Also, I wanted something more or less permanently attached to the car, but not get in the way of taking panels or the trunk pieces out later. The reason for that is to paint the car properly would mean taking the panels off the car and I didn't want a loose bracket piece getting lost.

So after much thought, and attempts at getting the angles correct on these, I made up some brackets:

Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 5.07.11 PM.jpg

These attach to the front of the rear fender flange. I used some counter-sunk screws into threaded holes in the brackets, and also a little epoxy. So they become part of the rear fender if pieces are later removed:

Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 5.07.34 PM.jpg

While working on the brackets I found out that I can remove the trunk from the rear of the car with the rear body panel off. I needed to do that since I forgot to insulate the bottom of the trunk and it is above the exhaust. Also gave good access to tidy things up:


Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 5.05.25 PM.jpg

So the roof went back on (for the last time?).

I took a break from the mechanical stuff to take the seams off the body. I was pleasantly surprised how well that worked out. The ones on the roof smoothed down very nicely and no filler will be needed. The front fenders will need a little, but it went well. I used a random orbital sander with 180 grit to start with and took it up to 400 for now. I'll do at least 600 after filling the areas that need it.

Screen Shot 2022-08-01 at 5.08.08 PM.jpg

I'm debating with myself on painting or wrapping the car. I found a place that gave me an estimate of $10K Canadian (about $7,800 US as I write this). Not sure how that compares with others today, but I think it is pretty good. The guy does have experience with fibreglass, has done a few "kit cars", and my brother has had work done at his shop and it is very good. He will finish the gaps, take the panels off to prep and paint, and then reinstall them. But he hasn't seen the car yet, only pictures and my description, and my thoughts on the amount of bodywork needed compared with other cars I've built; very little, I think based on how good the panels look. But I can see the estimate going up due to the complexity of removing the various panels compared with something like a Cobra which is basically one piece.

I am going to get an estimate for wrapping it, probably later this week. I talked with a shop that does very nice work. I don't have an estimate yet for that, but I'm guessing $4K? My brother keeps telling me that wraps only last about 5 years (actually, they can last longer with a car that is cared for and garaged as this one will be). I told him "when is the last time I kept a car for more than 2 years?". One factor is that the bodyshop is over an hour away, so I would have to transport the car there for him to see it. If the estimate goes up then I'm sort of stuck at that point. With wrapping, I assume that the estimate will be pretty much the final price. I can leave the panels installed loosely so he can to a better job with the seams between panels. And the wrapping place is 15 minutes away, so I can easily drop in if there are any questions.

I'd appreciate any thought or information on paint vs wrapping. And no, I don't want to do either myself. I have no idea what a car like this will be worth when it is done, but right now I don't see the $6K+ difference being worth it. Some people may not want to buy a car that has been wrapped (I certainly wouldn't if it was an "ordinary" car) since you don't know what is under the wrap. But with a car like this I don't think that would be a huge factor. But maybe I'm wrong.

And that's it for now.

Rick

[Ajzride]

If there is a high probability you will sell the car, I think a wrap makes more sense. You are correct you will not get 6K more for a painted car versus a wrapped one. And with a wrapped one it much easier for the next owner to make it the color they want.

[Scott Meyer]

Rick,

I may not have done a thorough job documenting my body work, and painting…but will say, the 818 was one of the hardest and most complex project I have ever done. I did all the bodywork and paint on my F5 Cobra back in 2010…documented on the old FFCars.com forum. After that I did a complete repaint on 2 daily driver cars and then partially painted an experimental Sonex aircraft I built in 2013-16.

So…while I’m not an expert, I’ve done enough bodywork to tell you it’s a rabbit hole to make it look good. $10K CAD seems like the going price and if you feel it’s worth it for you, do it. Wrapping this type of body with the individual panels and complex shapes will be challenging to make it look good.

One nitpicking item I had was the quality of the panels and fiberglass molding. Many areas around the nose and wheel wells had big air gaps embedded under the gel coat, and as I sanded the seams, it opened up the “holes”…a never ending process to fill and sand.

If you decide to go forward please post updates…it’s fun to watch what others do!

[FFRWRX]

I just finished sanding down all the mold seams and filling where required. I probably used about a tablespoon of filler for the whole car. Yes, I was shocked. In most of the areas the panel level was very good, so when the seams were sanded down no filler was needed. Only at the bottom of the passenger side front fender was there a mismatch. Could have almost sanded it out, but would have gone through the gelcoat pretty seriously, so used filler there; one of the few places other than small air holes that opened up.

Sanding the seams opened up a few air bubbles, but none larger than maybe 1/8" diameter and only a couple of those. I am really impressed with the molding of the panels as far as the finish goes. As far as gaps so, less impressed. I just did a trial fit with the windshield (fits well) and you can see where I've used filler:

Screen Shot 2022-08-02 at 2.40.29 PM.jpg

I did the prep work on my F5 Cobra back in the late '90's. It was the first one into Canada. It needed a LOT of filler in certain areas.

Scott, with all the bodywork and paint you have done, you are an expert. Many bodyshops do a lot of repair work, but not entire fibreglass cars. And my fear is the "rabbit hole" you mention. I think this looks almost ready to paint now. The bodyshop may have other ideas and the price could go way up. The guy that does the wrap (an ex body man that obviously recommends wrapping over painting now) said that if anything ever goes wrong with a panel that can be removed (mess it up finishing the car, or something under the gelcoat comes through later) I take the panel off, take it to him and for $200 he re-wraps it. Yes, you can do the same thing with paint but I don't think it would be that easy. I'll see what the wrap guys says when he sees the actual car.

Rick

[roadrashrob]

Rick,

Keep up posted on what the wrap guy says. I am leaning very strongly to wrapping initially as well, and would be curious what a "professional" says.

-Rob

[FFRWRX]

Working away on it. Got the rear hatch installed. Just a couple pointers that may help others.

The hinge mounts, that clamp around the roll bar, contact the headliner insulation I put on it. This is sound deadening stuff that is only about 1/8" thick, and I had to pull the roof up to get the hinge clamps into position. So if you have any thickness of headliner at all, be aware.

Screen Shot 2022-08-04 at 7.51.00 PM.jpg

But it did all go together pretty well. There is aluminum bonded into the fibreglass for the hinge bolts to go in. Drill the holes with a #7 bit and thread them 1/4-20. WD-40 is great when threading aluminum. And the aluminum isn't terribly thick so don't go crazy with the bolt torque. I did have to trim a fair bit off both sides of the hatch to get it to fit without hitting the sides. I have some temporary blocks to space it up a bit since that makes a difference to the gaps on the sides; the sides are tapered so the higher it sits the more the gap opens up. Not sure what I am supposed to use for the weather stripping. I have a bunch of F5 supplied stuff, but what I think I am supposed to use doesn't really fit over the fibreglass lip and doesn't look right; the rubber seal is on the end of the piece, not the side if that makes any sense. I'll order something suitable.

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I remembered that I have to get the wipers sorted out, since that means cutting the hood. I'm using the F5 supplied 2 wiper kit for a couple reasons. First, it came with the partially assembled car I bought, so I have all the bits. Second, the pictures I've seen of single wiper setups either don't cover enough of the windshield or sit too high up on it when parked; or both.

So putting the wiper assembly in place:

Screen Shot 2022-08-04 at 7.51.36 PM.jpg

It sits right where my remote master cylinder is! Why didn't you guys tell me? OK, so before I install the wiper system I have to remove the remote cylinder unit and re-mount it a little further away. Not a huge deal but I don't have any stuff for the hoses, so off to see what I can find.

Rick

[Frank818]

Second, the pictures I've seen of single wiper setups either don't cover enough of the windshield or sit too high up on it when parked; or both.

Hmm not that much. Depends where you locate the motor and the angle. Also you have to modify the little arm that swings so the 1 wiper can wipe the entire surface. Plus, you use a longer wiper blade. It doesn't cover, in % of glass surface, as much as 2 but it's close enough for most people. My wiper blade wipes up to 1in of the other side's windshield surround lolll. The blade sits pretty low and at least half of it if not more is covered by the hood, most normal cars have much visible wipers.

In the end though whether you choose 1 or 2 wipers you got to work somewhat to make the solution fit and wipe properly. Of course nothing is easy.

[FFRWRX]

I removed the remote master cylinder assembly and will make a bracket to mount it after the wipers are done. You are supposed to rivet the part of the roof that is under the windshield (fibreglass piece) to the framework in front of the windshield. Mine was sitting about 1/2” too high. I didn’t think it was a good idea to pull it down, so just made some spacer blocks and used screws instead of rivets. So I had to use a spacer block under the wiper motor bracket as well.

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I mounted the cowl piece that the wipers stick through:

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The instructions say it is supposed to be flush with the rear of the hood. Obviously, mine isn’t. Wondered about just leaving it and making sure the mating piece that goes on the hood matches up with it. Then thought I’ll just trim it down. So scribed it and cut it off on the bandsaw.

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Now for the bigger step, cutting the hood. Marked:

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And cut. With the trim piece in it looks pretty good. A small drum sander on a drill makes quick work of removing fibreglass to trim up to a line in the corners.

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While I’m messing around with that area of the hood, I installed these hold downs. I have 5 boxes of the F5 hood pins, but saw these used by someone else and really like them.

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I found the easiest way to line things up is to not put the push-button part in the hood, and play with the other part until it is centred in the hole and the top of the ball is just about flush with the top of the hood.

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The only minor issue is that the mounts for the pins are too low for these, so something has to be extended.

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I sacrificed 2 of the supplied hood pins. Drilled and tapped the end and threaded in the stem part of the new hold downs. Since the threaded part is ½” diameter and so is the hole it goes in, there really isn’t any room for adjustment laterally. I bent the mounting flange to get the ball to line up with the hole.

Pretty happy with the wiper setup so far. I know I criticize F5 for a lot for things done poorly on this car, but the wiper assembly is a nice piece of design and fabrication. The large bracket that holds the wiper motor and pivot bushings, and the way they modify the hood to fit the wipers……well done.

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And I like the way it looks with the dedicated area for the wipers. Not that the wipers are hidden at all, but reminds me a little of hidden wipers and wiper doors and other features that came and went. I’m thinking I’ll leave those parts black (repaint them or something) to contrast with whatever color I do the car.

Still working on the hood/fender/A-pillar/door interface to get everything to clear. Will be some fairly large gaps in this area, but not sure anything can be done about that given the way it is designed. But from any distance it should look OK and I'll see about some sort of small filler piece going in from underneath.

Rick

[Frank818]

Are you using springs on your Quik-Latches? I use their 20lbs spring and it works super well, it pushes easily the panel up when you press the button.
Overall I fitted 8 of those latches and am using them all the time, they never failed, nor worn down. Good addition to your build!

[FFRWRX]

Didn't think of using springs. And when I first read what you wrote I thought, what do I need springs for?

But a little more thought, and maybe it would be good. When I close the hood I sort of have to guide it onto the pins as it is pretty floppy. Springs would leave it a little above the catch as I lower the hood from the front, then I go to the sides and snap them down. And releasing it would probably be better too.

Thank you Frank! I'll give it a shot.

Rick

[FFRWRX]

A little more playing around with the hood.

There was a large gap on the passenger side of the hood/fender interface. Driver's side wasn't too bad. The curve of the hood on the passenger side didn't match the curve of the fender. There was very little gap at the ends but a large space in the middle.

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The easiest way to improve it was to cut the hood, at the front, back to this line and then blend it back about 8".

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Of course that would leave a larger gap, but then I could move the fender in closer to the hood, leaving the rear of it where it is. Sort of letting it pivot at the rear attachment point. One other thing I did.

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That picture doesn't really help much, but that is the underside of the hood, passenger side, with the front at the bottom of the picture. When I trimmed the front of it back it took off the downturned lip on the hood, so I put some masking tape on the outside and built up a small lip again with fibreglass. At the same time I built up the lip going farther back (built it up on the inside) then sanded it down on the outside to help it fit a bit better and still leave some downturned lip.

There is still a larger gap on the passenger side than the driver side, but can't really help that without major surgery. There is quite a severe draft angle on both the hood and the fender, so even with the hood touching the fender at the bottom of the interface, there is a decent gap at the top. I suppose sanding the hood lip pretty much completely off would help by allowing the hood to move closer to the fender. But then the hood would be even more flexible than it is now. The lip on mine is about 3/8" high in most areas. I'm trying to minimize the amount of fibreglassing I do. Especially with it being so hot out that it sets up very quickly, even with a fraction of the amount of hardener I normally use. Does make for quicker work though!

For those that haven't played with all the gaps in attempt to get them all to look nice (and even those that have) it isn't a matter of working on it until all the gaps are perfect. It is a matter of working on it until you give up and say "good enough". I'm nearing that stage.

Rick

[FFRWRX]

For those with the 818S, ignore this. You are going to say that your panels fit well and there isn't much of a gap. For those with the 818C (with the roof), this gap is another of those things that Factory Five is obviously OK with but should be embarrassed sending out something like this. Kit cars 40 years ago had better fitting panels.

Depending on how the roof, door, and fender line up, this is the gap that you'll have, more or less:

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The door panel swings into this space a certain amount, so you can't just fill it in. This is with the door open:

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Also, the door skin needs to be cut away a certain amount to clear the steel part of the A-pillar when the door is open, so can't just extend the door skin forward to fill the gap.

I wanted to do something about this before getting a wrap estimate. The simplest thing would be to ignore it and maybe put in a thin sheet of black rubber down in the space, bonded to the panels somewhere. At least then you wouldn't be looking into the innards of the car. But I wanted to do something better than that. So it was either extend the A-pillar or extend the fender. I did a quick mockup of both and went with the fender extension. That way the gap will be at the bottom of the current A-pillar, and looks better in my opinion.

I taped things up, carved a small block of foam, covered it with tape (since I'm using fibreglass resin that eats foam), and taped it in place. Looks like something from Star Trek:

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I covered it with resin and mat:

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On the passenger's side I just cut a flat piece of fibreglass resin/mat that I had laid up for something and glued that in place to start. Maybe a little less work doing it that way, but not much less. Anyways, here are a series of pictures. The piece removed, trimmed and glued in place. Then most of you know the dril, so I skipped the pictures of.... more fibreglass buildup, sanding, filling, sanding, filling...and then a bit of red paint to see what it looks like more or less blended in:

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Door open. A little more work to do on my mirror mount. The slot in the top of the mount will have a rubber sealing strip that contacts the bottom of the A-pillar when the door is shut.


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Really happy with the way it came out. Covers the huge gap nicely and looks sort of factory (not Factory Five!). The other side is almost done. Then a final sanding of the panels, mainly the edges to round them slightly, and I can get the wrap guy over for an estimate.

One other thing. I don't normally go into personal stuff here, but I had a bit of a delay since I got lens replacement surgery. You are supposed to avoid dusty conditions for a few weeks, but can see fine as of the next day. So I took a couple days off, then found these really funky safety glasses that protect from dust and crap very well. Add in a mask to prevent breathing in the dust and I look like something from a science fiction movie!

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The surgery is pretty amazing. It is basically what they do for cataracts, but they replace the natural lens with one that corrects (almost) the same as glasses. So you walk in after 35 years of wearing glasses and walk out not needing them. Modern technology, got to love it.

Rick

[Ajzride]

Good move on the eye surgery, I feel the same way about my lasik years ago. Best money I ever spent.

I've gone to a full face respirator for fiberglass work. It keeps the lens from fogging, keeps your lungs clean, and keeps your face from itching.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[roadrashrob]

I like the way it turned out! That's my next project once we resume work on the car in the Fall. Took the summer off to handle all the other chores that were long overdue!

I plan to fill that mirror bracket gap as well as what I learned at the build school was if you use the OEM mirrors, they are practically blocked by the A-pillar. I went with aftermarket mirrors.

[FFRWRX]

I've finally got it to the stage that I think it is ready for wrapping. Of course I could still decide to have it painted, but the prep was pretty much the same.

There were of course a lot of very small areas that needed filling. I've gone over most of the car with 2000 grit on a random orbital sander. Some small areas are just hand sanded with 1000 and there are certainly some scratches in areas I'm not too concerned about; very low down and the worst would be ones that you can barely catch a fingernail in.

I took the doors off for now. Here is my thinking. The doors rarely go back on with exactly the same alignment as they came off. That is especially true with mine that have the full window surround to align with the roof recess. So I figured the best thing would be to get the car wrapped without the doors in place. You also need them off to be able to get at the front of the rocker areas. Then I'll install the doors and do final trim and fit of the outer door panels, then take them to get wrapped.

At the rear I've put longer bolts between the bumper and fenders and left a gap there to wrap into. The roof can also be lifted at the rear to get at the seams between it and the fenders. I really don't want to take the front bolts off the roof and lose whatever alignment I have there now, so it lifts up at the rear and less as you move forward.

I've texted the wrapper to come over and see what he thinks of my prep. And of course to give me an estimate.

Rick

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[jbs72697]

Looks good. What color wrap are you going with?