Buying partially assembled kits

[Rian_Colorado]

Hello all!

So as I'm nearing completion on my Coupe, the wife says - "what are you going to do next". I took that as obvious approval of purchasing another kit! (wouldn't you?) Mk4 here I come....

I've had my eye out for a while, and found a possible deal, and here's where the paranoia begins. I'm worried about a few things..... obviously! what was the previous builders skill set and is completed work done acceptably (obviously I'll spend quite a while double/triple checking) Age on the kit in question is concerning (it's a 2012 kit....). And the final issue - the kit was sold to a second owner, who's had it for a year or 2, and is selling it again. It DOES have the MCO, but it's been signed over to the 2nd owner. Am I going to run into issues trying to register the car if I go forward? Is there a proper/specific way to assign the MCO again? (ie - like a normal title that has several owner transfer spaces like ours do in Colorado)? I'd hate to have to jump through 1000 hoops in order to get it registered.....

Looking for input on all of it, but mostly the last item. Am I being overly concerned about the MCO not being in my name? Is this really more common than I think, and lots of other kits have changed hands 2-3-4 times before completion? How much should this really affect the price considering the age and ownership issues?

All opinions wanted, even "you're a crazy idiot"

Rian

[wallace18]

I had to assemble 2 partially assembled kits for owners that could not finish their car for what ever reason. I told them up front, I would disassemble the car and start from scratch. It was the only way I could be certain it was done right. Just my 2 cents worth.

[edwardb]

This has been discussed in multiple threads. You are right to be concerned about the Factory Five Certificate of Origin. It's good you have it. But (1) It's not a document that can be "assigned" to another owner. It specifically says on the form that transfer signatures are for licensed dealers only. I don't know the implication of non-dealers signing it. But I wouldn't count on that carrying any weight. (2) Whether your local authorities (state, whatever) will accept it as part of your title process varies. Based on non-scientific data (e.g. what's reported here on the forum) many states will accept it along with a properly executed bill of sale. But some others, Michigan in my case, don't like it. I was able to get through it by purchasing a surety bond. But enough of an issue that I won't do it again. But your experience could be different. You need to inquire and find out for your specific location. Experiences from elsewhere don't matter.

[CraigS]

Yes I'd be worried about the MCO. I have no personal experience w/ them but from reading here it will be a problem. I would check w/ your state. But even then it will be hard to find someone who actually knows the regs and how unusual situations can be dealt with. Good luck.

[mrmustang]

Hello all!

So as I'm nearing completion on my Coupe, the wife says - "what are you going to do next". I took that as obvious approval of purchasing another kit! (wouldn't you?) Mk4 here I come....

I've had my eye out for a while, and found a possible deal, and here's where the paranoia begins. I'm worried about a few things..... obviously! what was the previous builders skill set and is completed work done acceptably (obviously I'll spend quite a while double/triple checking) Age on the kit in question is concerning (it's a 2012 kit....). And the final issue - the kit was sold to a second owner, who's had it for a year or 2, and is selling it again. It DOES have the MCO, but it's been signed over to the 2nd owner. Am I going to run into issues trying to register the car if I go forward? Is there a proper/specific way to assign the MCO again? (ie - like a normal title that has several owner transfer spaces like ours do in Colorado)? I'd hate to have to jump through 1000 hoops in order to get it registered.....

Looking for input on all of it, but mostly the last item. Am I being overly concerned about the MCO not being in my name? Is this really more common than I think, and lots of other kits have changed hands 2-3-4 times before completion? How much should this really affect the price considering the age and ownership issues?

All opinions wanted, even "you're a crazy idiot"

Rian

Back in the 2007-2009 time frame, I bought, rebuilt, built, sold more than my fair share of FFR roadsters, in that time, while living in PA, I found the process of such "secondary" (or more) kit sales as a minor bump in the road, as PA had a process for these cars. The MSO/MCO is important, but a properly filled out and notarized bill of sale went much further. Your best bet is to contact your state DMV/MVS office and ask those questions. If the actual state office is local or semi local to you (mine was a 3 hour drive), I highly suggest you drive down to speak with someone live, face to face. If you have a specific car in mind, bring along the paperwork available (emailed copies work), and lay out the scenario of your potential purchase, and what paperwork and processes on your end will be involved. The first is always the hardest, after that, "you" have set the presidence for the state...Or, if you are lucky, someone has already done it before you.

Hope you find this helpful.

Bill S.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bill gave you good insight on one aspect but let me touch on another. I have completed 2 builds for customers who purchased partially assembled kits. Both were full of booby traps; one to such an extent that although it came to ne as a "roller" I ultimately wound up tearing it all the way back down to the bare chassis for a complete do over. After giving it a look over I realized that I could trust nothing that had been done by the initial (alleged "pro builder") owner. The other was not so blatantly full of errors however it had been passed through several sets of hands and I just didn't trust that builder #3 picked up where builder #2 or builder #1 left off. So again, before proceeding I first did a great deal of backing up to verify exactly what had or had not been done and whether it had been done properly. My warning is that if you purchase a car that has been started by another do not expect to simply continue the process without first giving a thorough vetting to everything that has been done prior.

As for titling and registration, one went off here in Indiana just as easily as it would have if the owner was the original purchaser. Unfortunately the other, which was being done in Missouri, took nearly a year for the owner to sort out and for a time he feared that the car would be unregisterable, at least legally and legitimately. In this case the issue was didn't have any documentation proving ownership of the engine or the VIN that it carried.

Just be cautious and do some preliminary leg work as Bill suggested. Good luck!

Jeff

[Blitzboy54]

Just curious, how much of a deal are we talking about? I would definitely consider it but I would also be prepared to tear it back down. My state didn't care about the MCO as much as the receipt / bill of sale so I would be interested but only at the right price

[ydousurf]

Rian,

Here’s my 5 cents! Wife gives you green light to build, then get a new kit and build it for her! Make it a fun ride and include her on everything. Dual roll bars 289 or 302 power plant. Maybe consider, dare I say it… Go with an auto transmission and route the pipes out the back? I mean, I think that would be sweet to have that kind of setup as a cruiser to just enjoy time with your significant other. One stipulation, she has to be primary driver. I know my wife would love something like that! Let her choose colors and dash layout and whatever else. I mean come on, you have your dream, now build her, hers? Just throwing ideas around. And btw, it was good seeing you again and chatting at the last C&C. Hope to catch ya at the next one and take a ride in your sweet build of yours.

Doug

[Rian_Colorado]

Thanks for all of the input! Definitely confirms some of my concerns.

I WOULD have the options of completing the registration process in either Colorado or Wyoming - so I have at least SOME confidence that I could get it done.

I totally agree with the idea of tearing down MUCH of the build to start over. The sheer fact that it's been uncomplete for 12 years is concerning. I've remodeled enough real-estate to learn that you can NEVER count on "what the last guy" did. I can probably get the same thing NEW from FFR for not all of THAT much more $. and have a much better level of confidence.

[Rian_Colorado]

Rian,

Here’s my 5 cents! Wife gives you green light to build, then get a new kit and build it for her! Make it a fun ride and include her on everything. Dual roll bars 289 or 302 power plant. Maybe consider, dare I say it… Go with an auto transmission and route the pipes out the back? I mean, I think that would be sweet to have that kind of setup as a cruiser to just enjoy time with your significant other. One stipulation, she has to be primary driver. I know my wife would love something like that! Let her choose colors and dash layout and whatever else. I mean come on, you have your dream, now build her, hers? Just throwing ideas around. And btw, it was good seeing you again and chatting at the last C&C. Hope to catch ya at the next one and take a ride in your sweet build of yours.

Doug

Hey Doug!!
I TOTALLY would do all of that! But alas, she's NOT a car person - and basically refuses to ride in the Daytona! She IS in love with the VW cabriolet from "can't buy me love".... but I just can't do it...lol

She HAS picked colors for a Cobra though, and I already have an Idea for the vanity plate too..... We'll have to see

Would love to take ya for a spin anytime! Holler if you happen to be in the Longmont area

Rian