Brandon's 818R Build

[RPGs818SNA]

I had to cut ½” off the welded rod, but only on the passenger side, to get to the recommended street values of -0.62 camber and 3.5 caster. Weird.

My best discovery was that I could adjust the caster and camber by measuring from the spindle nipple to the firewall or frame. Reducing the nipple to frame distance by 0.03” increases the negative camber by 0.1 degrees. Reducing the nipple to firewall distance by 0.03” increases the caster by 0.1 degrees. With that information I could measure camber, determine what change I wanted, figure out how far to move the spindle, move it, and measure again, and be pretty close. Adjusting caster is the same, except when adjusting the turnbuckles, you have to keep the distance to the frame the same so as to not change the camber.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is a picture of my Upper A_Arm when I was at the same point as you. In hindsight, I wish I had put two small holes in each turn-buckle so i could verify I was getting enough thread engagement.

a_arm.jpg

[blomb11]

Thanks Bob for the feedback super helpful! I may add the holes because I was wondering that same thing during my adjustments. I am going to star with -2* camber all around and adjust from there. On the fronts I need the negative camber to try to clear the 235 tires. I think I am still going to have to trim the inside of the fenders or raise the car up another 0.25".

[blomb11]

It feels like it took forever to get the car aligned. Well it was pretty out of whack and then had to review the forum on how to cut the UCA links. I cut off 0.5” from both welded rods, 0.25” from both rear threaded rods on both sides, cut both long links by 0.25”, and then both short links by 0.5”. I don’t think cutting the short links was completely necessary. I built wooden blocks with Masonite panels to allow the adjustments to be easier. I also picked up a wheel alignment kit from Amazon which seemed to work well. Getting the strings set up the first time was tedious, but now I know the distances so it’s easy to setup. Which I did about 5 times ha. I was able to get it set with an initial alignment and will see how it feels after a shake down. I ordered 12mm spacers so the rear so I can adjust the rear bump. With 10mm spacers I am stuck because there is only a 0.018” gap between the wheels and each rear trailing arm. The lower lateral arms are not parallel so hopefully the spacers will let me even them out.

Alignment specs:
Front left and right
Caster = 4.9*
Camber = -2.0*
Toe (in) = -0.036”

Rear left and right
Caster
Camber = -2.0*
Toe (in) = -0.0625”

I also got the rear license plate frame and lights installed as I get ready to begin the registration process.

IMG_0585.jpg IMG_0586.jpg IMG_0600.jpg IMG_0601.jpg

[driveslikejehu]

With folks talking about clearance, I had to remind myself what I did. I can’t remember how the VCP modified trailing arm is supposed to go but I ended up offsetting the front of the trailing arm as shown to clear the tire. I cut one of the spacers, and there's a washer on the inside between the lug and bushing.
On the rear I ended up with 5mm spacers instead of 10 to give clearance to the fenders, with 245/40-17. I was fighting fender to engine cover gap and tire clearance.
Maybe its jacked up, but it only changed the trailing arm geometry ~1.5deg and I have clearance thru full range of motion.
trailing arm offset.jpg

[blomb11]

My issue is the upper arm maybe I am calling it by the wrong name. The lower VCP trailing arm I clear no problem with 10mm spacers but it’s the upper that I need to get more clearance from. There are too many adjustments!

[Bicyclops]

I had to push the upper arm (and the trailing arm too) over all the way with the spacers on the outboard side much like Jehu is showing for his. The length of the upper one is what parallels the lateral arms.

Ed

[blomb11]

That’s actually a better idea than using larger wheel spacers. I followed the manual too closely and didn’t think outside the box like you both. I will give it a shot.

I drove the car around the block and it feels pretty solid but I didn’t get up past 40 mph. The negative camber in the front helps a lot but the 235s still rub turning. Especially a high speed corner I imagine it will run more. I am still considering sanding down the inner lip on the front fender to add clearance.

[Bicyclops]

Outside of the box is pretty much where I live if only because I have so little automotive build experience. I don't even really know what I don't know.

I've got 215/35R18 Pilot Sport 4S on 18x8 Enkei TS10 wheels with 45 offset and 10mm spacers and I rub on the inside at full lock. Outside no problem. I'm running 255/35R18 Pilot Sport 4S rear on 18x9.5 x 45 TS-10 and 12mm spacers. My closest to rub is my Caddy Brembos and the upper arm right at the rim on the rears. I've got aftermarket tubular trailing arms and I even bent them a little more for clearance. I think I could actually get 275s in there. Incidentally, we test fit my wheels on my nephew's build and his OEM bent metal trailing arms actually have a little more clearance than mine. Surprised me.

As for spacers, others have said - and I think it's pretty important - you must have extended studs. I used the ARP 12x1.5 set meant for a Mitsubishi Evo, I think.

I need to do some autocross to find out if I really need more tire patch. I haven't really been able to break it loose. We did some super twisties today and I ate my buddy's Cobra up. This on a road he's done dozens of times and it was my first. He's got a ton more low end torque, but can't stay with me in the corners and I'm still just learning how to drive this car. ;-)

Ed

[blomb11]

Outside of the box is pretty much where I live if only because I have so little automotive build experience. I don't even really know what I don't know.

I've got 215/35R18 Pilot Sport 4S on 18x8 Enkei TS10 wheels with 45 offset and 10mm spacers and I rub on the inside at full lock. Outside no problem. I'm running 255/35R18 Pilot Sport 4S rear on 18x9.5 x 45 TS-10 and 12mm spacers. My closest to rub is my Caddy Brembos and the upper arm right at the rim on the rears. I've got aftermarket tubular trailing arms and I even bent them a little more for clearance. I think I could actually get 275s in there. Incidentally, we test fit my wheels on my nephew's build and his OEM bent metal trailing arms actually have a little more clearance than mine. Surprised me.

As for spacers, others have said - and I think it's pretty important - you must have extended studs. I used the ARP 12x1.5 set meant for a Mitsubishi Evo, I think.

I need to do some autocross to find out if I really need more tire patch. I haven't really been able to break it loose. We did some super twisties today and I ate my buddy's Cobra up. This on a road he's done dozens of times and it was my first. He's got a ton more low end torque, but can't stay with me in the corners and I'm still just learning how to drive this car. ;-)

Ed

Nice! I want to get the car out on the road to really drive it and see how it feels.

I have the extended lugs and VCP trailing arms on the rear. I am going to try flipping the upper trailing arm spacers tomorrow night to see if that helps before trying the 12mm spacers. Hopefully then I can increase the upper arm length to even out the adjustable lower lateral links. On the fronts with 235s at full lock the wheels hit the firewall on both sides so I need to install the lock rings I have to limit the travel. Fine tuning at this point which is a cool stage to get to.

I have Enkei TSV 17x8 +38 with 235s on the fronts and 18x9.5 +38 with 265s on the rears.

[Bicyclops]

The 38mm offset is more in line with reality so you can probably get by with less spacer as long as you can clear the calipers. I was looking to do 17s in the front but couldn't find matching brand/model tires for the rear. I know that pure racers will scoff at my Michelins, but they are sticking pretty well on these canyon roads and I don't worry too much when I cross the fairly frequent wet patches. So far the 215s have been plenty on the front and the only time I rub them is when I do a u-turn. I usually end up with a t-turn. Oh well. The skinny sidewalls seem to help with grip in the turns. I don't feel any flex, but I do feel every pebble and crack for sure. Saw a rock the size of a head on the road yesterday. Wouldn't want to try that one. Easy enough to drive around it fortunately. There's been a lot of road closures from mud and rock slides around here lately. Canyon roads + rain. I'll probably complain when it dries out and gets hot.

Getting it pretty much complete enough drive a lot really is a different world. You're gonna love it. This really is a supercar on a budget. Mine will never have the fit and finish of a McLaren or a Ferrari and would get smoked by them anyway, or maybe even by a good driver in a Boxster, but for the bucks? I'm having fun. Getting tuned next week. Gonna do E85 flex fuel.

Ed

[blomb11]

I have the jug filled with E85 sitting in the garage. I need to add it in and see how much of a difference that goes. On 91 the car already pulls hard so I assume it will be even crazier with E85 on board! I need more space than the neighborhood to try it though

[Bicyclops]

Unless it's tuned for it and a flex fuel sensor telling the ECU real time ethanol content, it'll be maybe 30% too lean.

Ed

[blomb11]

I offset the spacers outboard on the connection of the upper trailing arm to the rear spindle. I now have a 0.25” of clearance from the link to the wheel which is awesome! No need for 12mm spacers just had to think outside the manual (thanks again). I also adjust the rear bump to be 0.15* in (rear lateral link lower than front link). The alignment is all set for now until a shakedown or more miles.

[blomb11]

Well the P0021 cam position timing error CEL came back and I sent a data log to my tuner to confirm I need to check the oil filter screens on the AVCS oiling lines. I checked the one to the turbo oil feed when I was rebuilding but I didn’t know Subaru has a service bulletin that says to remove the oil screens. Oh well this was my first engine rebuild. I am going to have to remove the intake manifold and the rear timing cover to get to them. Kind of a pain and a setback.

[blomb11]

Well that was a doozy! To fix the P0021 CEL I decided to remove all of the AVCS oil screens from the system to prevent a future failure and to see if this was the culprit. Of course there is a Subaru SB I didn’t know about when I was assembling the motor that instructs you to do this anyways. So off I went loosening the turbo and every thing around it and then pulled off the timing kit. Of course the oil screens were clean and intact, but I did notice my timing was off by at least 1 tooth. I went back and looked at old pictures and I don’t think I did it right the first time so it’s always been off by a tooth. Good thing I haven’t beat on it. I thought taking it apart was the hard part but it took my at least a dozen times to get the timing set and dead on. There is almost no room between the motor and the firewall which made it challenging. I learned there is an order of operations and my mistake the first time. Once you set the motor in time and go to spin the crank two cycle to remove the slack in the belt DO NOT remove the tensioner pin. Each time I did this without spinning the motor first the belt would jump every time. I was also fighting an upper pulley I forgot to tighten oops.

Well the motor is timed, coolant bled, and ready to rock! Only took 2-3 weeks. I sent an idle data log to my tuner to see if anything needs to be adjust since it was not in time before.

Now just waiting on my plates and the car is insured so almost ready for its maiden voyage outside of the neighborhood.

Now that this is complete I can get back to working on the rear wing structure and oil/trans coolers.

[driveslikejehu]

Congrats on the registration... and finding the gremlin

[Dave 53]

I've had my timing belt off a couple of times for various reasons. Twice because I thought I had a cam shaft seal leak that turned out to be a leaking AVCS oil plug. Then I bench installed the timing on a new long block, installed the engine only to find out cam seals aren't included in a long block and REALLY had a cam shaft lack of seal leak. I think I've always pulled the pin before hand cranking. But, now you got me thinking about it!

The key, as is the case with any job, is to have the proper tools. Over several timing belt jobs, I have acquired all the proper tools and would be happy to lend them to anyone willing to pay for shipping to you and back to me.

I've always wondered about the firewalls I've seen some 818 builders install from inside of the engine compartment in addition to the firewall installed from the cockpit side. Can you remove that engine compartment firewall with the engine in place? If not, it seems a timing belt service will require pulling the engine out. Maybe the double insulation is worth it, but I'm sure glad I didn't have to pull the engine each time. After having to remove my (cockpit side) firewall more times than I can count for timing belt service and other reasons, I got tired of drilling out rivets and replaced them all with bolts.

The first time I did the in car timing belt service, I discovered the timing belt cover on the right side was bashed up. It was impossible to see the damage with a normal visual inspection. It required removing the coolant pipe that runs in front of the cover to see the damage. I concluded the damage was caused because the FFR kit deletes the pitch link that keeps the engine from moving fore and aft. With soft OEM motor and transmission mounts and no pitch link, the engine has excessive free fore and aft movement and the coolant pipe gets pinched between the timing belt cover and the lateral chassis bar causing the timing belt cover to break. The solution is to put much stiffer than OEM motor and transmission mounts. I have Cusco "bolt" mounts and no more broken timing belt covers. I assume Group N mounts would be enough, but I'm not sure....

[blomb11]

I thought I was going to have to pull the engine so I was dreading the job. I have a firewall installed on the engine side which makes it extra tight. I did see a builder or two add removable sections or a window for the timing which would have been smart now in hindsight. It was so tight on the right hand side I had to cut down the 10mm Allen socket to break the cam gears. While I was in there I swapped out the OEM exhaust cam gears for allow RCM one and swapped out the Allen cam bolts to upgraded 17mm hex bolts. I borrowed the Company 23 specialty tools from my brother in law. Without those and a mirror I would have been up a creek and would have had to pull the engine.

I have the group n motor mounts and an almost solid trans mount so hopefully I don’t see too much vibration.

[Bicyclops]

I've had my engine out twice, once because it spun a rod on the dyno and again when the front main seal was leaking. I did manage to replace the timing belt covers in place when the scavenge pump belt adjuster failed and ate it. I really wouldn't want to try to do the timing belt in the car. Just not enough room. My hat's off to you, Blomb for managing it. Pulling the engine is a *****, but I'm getting good at it, more's the pity.

Ed

[blomb11]

Probably part of the reason it took so long was having to use and articulate the mirror to try and line up the marks. I haven’t had to pull the engine yet but want to avoid it.

[blomb11]

Another item on the list I need to address is the ride height. When I raised the car I think I just maxed out the preload. I have the suspension on the R holes and am at 4.25” front and 3.75-4” in the rear. I want to remove the coilovers and adjust the length and preload to get it right but I think I might be maxed out on the R holes. If I move to the S holes I probably will need to redo my alignment but I guess I will have to if I adjust the coil overs.

Does anyone know what the max ride height with the R suspension holes is? My goal is 4.5” which will allow for more clearance with a front lip.

[Hobby Racer]

I had the same issue with the R holes. I moved to the S holes and it worked out much better.

[driveslikejehu]

After corner balancing, I'm at ~4.63" ride height in the S holes. I wouldn't want to be any lower as I'm not dedicated track but street and track. With any splitter I would be dragging everywhere.

[blomb11]

Thanks for the feedback sounds like I will move to the S holes front and rear.

@driveslikejehu what is your coilover length for reference? This way I know what to target to start with. Thanks!

[driveslikejehu]

I'll try to measure this morning, but I'm prepping for a track day so might be a couple of days...
Not sure it will help you anyway, as I'm running a hybrid setup. After researching various threads here, including comments from the FFR tech guy, I have 400# fronts and 300# rear; a slightly stiffer street set up.
When I set it up, I tightened the fronts so they were just beginning to compress the springs. That had the fronts at close to ~4.5inches. Then tightened the rears to get to that height.
Then I did corner balancing which moved things around a little.

[Dave 53]

My ride height is 4.25" and no issues street driving. But, I don't have a splitter to worry about.

When I went from a 5 speed to 6 speed, I had to increase the rear spring rate to 350# because the 6 speed is about 85# heavier than the 5 speed. 475# springs up front.

When it bottoms out on track if the springs are too soft or with too heavy of a passenger, it hits the body right in front of the rear wheels. I have 2 bolts there holding the front of the wheel splash guard which takes the impact. Don't use button top bolts because they will get rubbed down and you won't be able to get an alen wrench in. The hex bolts will rub down too, but you'll still be able to grab them with a vice grips. I'd also suggest NOT bolting the body panel to the bottom of the chassis under the door except near the front wheels to allow the panel to flex if it bottoms out. If the panel is bolted to the chassis there and you bottom out, it will break instead of flexing. I have a 200# passenger weight limit and I'm going to put my old Sparco seat in the passenger position which won't fit anyone over 200#, so instead of having to ask their weight, the test will just be fitting in the seat.

[blomb11]

No problem it makes sense there is no easy answer since it is all going to be different. No short cuts! I will make up 4.5" blocks and set the coil over length to get the ride height. Plus things will change as you mentioned John when I corner balance the car.

I have 350lb front springs and 500lb rear springs. Given I have the 6 speed and will add a rear wing this seems like a good starting point. I have seen some increase the front springs with added aero so I will see.

[Dave 53]

It took a couple of hours, but with a strategy around which wheel and up or down do I need to adjust to move the balance while minimizing the overall ride height differences, I got 50.0/50.0 and 4.25 +/- 0.25" at all 4 corners and called it good. I did the balancing with 200# of bricks in the driver's seat (alignments while seated in the car). I used a 4" painter's stir stick to measure height.

As a bonus, I put out a post on my local FB track group looking to borrow some scales and now I have a new Lemon's and HPDE friend.